There is a reason Twitter asks “What are you doing?” instead of “What are you thinking?” and I learned it today. Twitter is good for many things and I find it to be an invaluable part of my day, but its greatest flaw is also its greatest strength: Twitter is simple. By being so incredibly simple, great innovations and conversations can be built on top of it. Unfortunately, its simplicity can also mask the nuances of language and humanity. I discovered this the hard way: through trial and error.
Yesterday, I made the regrettable mistake of reading far too much into an innocent tweet:
@arthus Play with Group and Search. Then read about how the program works technically.
Upon the excellent suggestion of ijohnpederson, I had downloaded TweetDeck, an excellent app built on top of the AIR platform, and informed my followers of the fact. Upon reading the above tweet, I saw it as a lesson plan in 140 characters.
Summer is a time when I like to avoid being taught. (Though I do love learning during the summer.) Almost every twit I follow is an excellent teacher, with ijohnpederson being no exception. In my opinion, a hallmark of a great teacher is seizing upon teachable moments, until it becomes a subconscious process. Unfortunately, this is in direct conflict with the desires of a student during the summer. This was one lesson which came at the wrong time, with the wrong content. Considering the informal attitude of Twitter, I think both students and teachers need to adapt by seeing each-other as fellow learners. In this enviroment, passive learning should be encouraged, but I believe actionable teaching should be avoided—both teachers and students and teachers benefit from having time away from the classroom, whether it is virtual or physical.
Regardless of percieved and undesired lessons, I over-reacted. I could say I was being a whiny teenager, a influenced by hormones, or a little boy in a grown-up’s word, but the fact is that I simply misjudged the situation and reacted in an unacceptable way. By continually digging myself deeper into a pit of miscommunication, I irrationally exacerbated the problem. What should have been a quick conversation spiraled into an embarrassing and, frankly, pathetic display of my own immaturity. For that, I apologize to all involved.
Of course, this situation is not new: for ages, teenagers and adults have miscommunicated and been in conflict. The difference is that the entire conversation, every mistake and every response, is indexed and searchable for all of eternity. As Ryan Bretag rightly points out, this entire incedent (and the oh-so-mature responses of my elders) has become a part of my digital footprint:
Is this fair that this will forever be part of his virtual footprint? I understand he chose to be part of this so my point is a bit different than I’m describing here. My point is what about all the things teachers have students doing online where it isn’t a choice but the teacher’s mandate that some, most, a little, whatever of their learning, risk-taking, mistakes, failures, and success are public by way of the Web 2.0 tools we hold so close.
Honestly, I’m not here to attack participatory media. I’m simply expressing something that I’ve been pondering of late and it is something that I would say needs to be discussed. Are we doing our students a disservice by wanting so much of their learning to be shared through the tools provided by today’s Internet? Should this be a choice made by each student? Do they truly understand the gravity of such a decision? Will anything in their future be impacted, positively or negatively, because of this public display of their learning?
In response, I believe that it is valuable to have this conversation as a part of my digital footprint. Learning done in a vacuum is not nearly as valuable as participatory learning. Just as I would pay more for a meal that I can see being cooked in front of me, I believe people will grow to value knowledge and wisdom which has a backstory. Who people are now and how they got to this place is becoming intermingled: the past is no longer shrouded in mystery. I believe this is a good thing, because it has always been so: a person is made of the sum of his past, his present, and his plans for the future. The crucial difference now is that someone from the outside looking in can now see the past as well as the present, while before they could only see parts of the present. Plus, I think it’ll be fun to laugh at my own immaturity in 40 years as I bounce around the galaxy.
Actually, it is somewhat heartening that such a simple exchange between a student and an adult has generated so much controversy and discussion: now, more than ever, students are being listened to and, yes, rebuked when they deserve rebuking. I certainly don’t think this should reflect upon the other members of Students 2.0, as I am certainly the craziest (read: immature) one of them.
I apologize to all invovled for my immature communication and behavior.
- Photo by Gaetan Lee on Flickr
- Photo by Joachim S. Müller on Flickr
Wow, Arthus. Sometimes learning things the hard way can be as difficult for the teacher as it may be for the student.
Put another way, sometimes learning sucks.
Here’s to the idea that we put this all behind us, let bygones be bygones, and move on tomorrow a little bit wiser.
At the end of the day, I think we’re all gaining a better understanding of who we are, and hopefully growing closer in the process.
OK, Arthus. I love it when anyone — anyone, age aside — can take a hit, get up, and then (gasp!) take their part of the responsibility. You know what? I really didn’t like the tone of your tweets in the much-discussed thread. BUT I love the tone (not to mention the linking) in your blog post. The truly dishonest (or delusional) man is the one who never wants to take back anything he has said. Blessedly, for most of us, these moments occur in private. Yours was a very public moment. You could be ticked, pass the blame, even resort to name-calling as so many “mature” adults do. You didn’t. In fact, you link to the posts in a way that I think charmingly says, “Caught.” I’m sitting here feeling thankful that twitter hasn’t been present in some of my snappish moments. Whew!
I commented in Draper’s thread. I was trying to make the point that we all need to strive to be communicators. You’re communicating here. And now, because my background is theatre, I will say….”scene.”
I’m sure some people’s eyes will roll if they choose to read this, but that’s just to be expected and I can endure that readily. The more I look into the “edubloggersphere,” the more I see of the worst part of myself, yet multiplied hundreds of times.
For people outside of education, a teacher’s habit of constantly being “on” can really be annoying. And I see that this community does it even more than most teachers, especially when it comes to being #1 with tech know-how.
I’ll admit that I don’t even cursorily know John Pederson, but it is easy to see how one could misconstrue that particular set of words (which could’ve been from anyone) as a lecture, since we’re surrounded by self-righteous lecturers at nearly every turn on Twitter.
And then we see others glom on to the situation, offering their own expert take on the situation. It seems that only Darren Draper had a somewhat fair level playing field approach, and for that I applaud him.
While it’s ‘big’ of you to apologize here and it is a proper move for your footprint, I’d never apologize for the meaning behind the words, only the way you expressed them. And I think you did that admirably well!
Keep your youthful passion and to the path you know is right.
Arthus, at the risk of sounding condescending:
I am glad to see that you took the time to step back and think about what happened, realizing that you “reacted in an unacceptable way”. Your post makes a few admissions that I am pleasantly surprised to see you make. And, I am glad you took the opportunity to apologize.
I will say that if I was in your position, I wouldn’t have been able to apologize (I was worse than you at your age).
That being said, it did sadden me, of course, to see such an incident happen again. I know I have had similar moments of discourse with you on Twitter and elsewhere, debating the value of respect towards teachers. And, I am not totally convinced that you have come to really understand what is happening here.
I absolutely agree that you might know more than a teacher. But, that doesn’t change two facts: (1) they have been around longer than you have and (2) they expect you to show them respect.
(1) means that you should respect them. You might not agree, but centuries of tradition say so. You are, of course, invited to participate in a discussion with them on equal footing. But, it is important to understand when a discussion leaves the realm of respectful.
And, even if you disagree (which I would totally understand), (2) means that you _should_ respect them. Why? Because it is the easiest way to get what you want. When you responded with the tone you did, the conversation shifted from web applications to your attitude, that isn’t productive. Don’t let your convictions (i.e. fighting ageism) get in the way of your ability to contribute (i.e. by engaging teachers in productive dialog).
Sometimes, we all have to make small sacrifices to be able to do the right thing, yours may have to be the ability to defend your ego.
As a sort of thought exercise, let me propose a way for you to turn things around:
Disappear. Abandon your web presence as Arthus. Reenter the world of blogging (and education discussions) without your pseudonym. But this time, do it without stepping on anyone’s toes. I have huge respect for what you have managed to achieve at your young age, but now it is time to grow up. Don’t tell anyone your age as your new identity, show them through your actions that you are a mature individual with important messages.
Over time, people will realize the connection, of course. But that isn’t the point. It would be an opportunity for you to shed all the stigma against “Arthus”. And, perhaps other’s expectations of Arthus, the 14 year old, are as much to blame as you are.
I guess, in the end, does any of this really matter? You have potential to do great things, is this where you want to do them?
@Darren: I’m all for letting bygones be bygones.
@AlyT: I definitely didn’t show my best on Twitter, but am glad you were able to reconsider me after reading some more in-depth writing. Glad you found my subtle hints amusing/charming.
@GingerTPLC: I agree that when teachers are always “on” it can become rather annoying.
However, I don’t think John Pederson was intending to be condescending or lecturing. Perhaps he subconsciously was being a teacher, but I genuinely believe he has respect for me.
That being said, I think there are some far worse offenders on Twitter who genuinely lecture at every turn. Hence, I don’t follow them (no matter how popular they may be). I’m not going to mention any names, but I think you can figure out who.
My opinion is always my opinion: I cannot apologize for having a different opinion. However, I do apologize for presenting that opinion in a somewhat rude and ungracious manner.
@Anthony: I don’t think it is a risk at all, but a certainty.
Though I recognize your right to an opinion, I have to say: it is my life. Not even that, it is only my online life.
As I mentioned above, I still hold my opinion that age and/or position does not automatically grant one the right to lecture to whoever will listen. (Or not listen, as the case may be.)
Respect is something to be earned, not commanded by position, age, or anything besides actual value.
(1) I don’t see how the fact that “they” have been around for longer than me would affect such a technical and modern subject. Since AIR and the technologies which support it have only come out recently, the fact is that, at best, teachers and I are on equal footing with regards to the knowledge.
Frankly, do not matter much to me. If everyone always followed tradition and maintained the status quo, society would never change.
(2) In all seriousness, that is the most recursive argument I have ever heard. I should give people respect because they ask for respect? By that logic, I should get $1 million dollars simply because I ask for it?
That being said, I think your argument boils down to that “you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.” I would rather shoe out the flies to get at the sweet stuff, and vinegar can be better for that. Still, I could certainly be politer in my interactions: the fact that this post was even needed is a testament to that.
I fear that would be a major waste of effort. It would be abandoning months of work for, what? A petty dispute? My age?
Of course it matters. Yes, if I could truly make a difference for education I would consider my life a life well lived. Education is a crucial aspect of society, and deserves prominence.
Arthus,
You should be proud of yourself for how you’ve handled this experience. Your post shows you learned something from the mistake. And it reflects your underlying good character in spite of a bad choice. (And no one can fault you the bad choice–we all make errors of judgment and 140 characters and no context leaves little wiggle room.)
Martin Luther King was no saint, but–and–he offered the following words that I hold dear:
“The function of education is to teach one to think intensively and to think critically. Intelligence plus character - that is the goal of true education.”
The part about character is something that cannot be lectured but it can be modeled. I hope that alongside your co-learning with others you will not only share your intelligence but grow and hold highly the importance of exhibiting good character.
Laura
PS: I don’t think anyone is required to respect everyone. There are people I don’t respect. However, there is a difference between respecting someone and being respectful. The later reflects on your own character.
I was just coming here to say that hey, that was big of you to write this post. I don’t think you were completely in the wrong, and, quite frankly, in my opinion you didn’t necessarily come off as that much worse than John in the exchange. The only difference is that he had a lot of teachers backing him up, and you just had you.
Then I saw Anthony’ comment. The idea that anybody is deserving of respect simply due to their age comes across as ridiculous at best. Respect should never be given freely, it needs to be earned. I believe that now more than I did when I was arthus’s age.
This is not to say that we shouldn’t treat each other respectfully. But to be fair to arthus, his first reply WAS a respectful presentation of his view of the software in question. It only devolved after what I would perceive as an arrogant-sounding response from ijohnpederson. The exchange quickly turned into the type you see when smart people are afraid of looking dumb. A rephrasing by pederson and maybe a link to what he was talking about would have provided the proper netiquette to have set the stage for a much more productive conversation.
PS: arthus, any chance you can have your theme use something other than nano-sized font for the comment box? I’m almost 30 and my eyesight isn’t getting any better!
“However, there is a difference between respecting someone and being respectful.”
That is the semantic distinction I was failing to make. I am talking about the latter. I agree that you don’t need to respect anyone’s ideas, but you must respect them as a person - you must treat them with respect.
The opportunity for meaningful personal growth.
Good for you! (that’s only 41 characters) I’ll avoid trying to teach anything, consider the remaining 99 study hall.
How very wise of you.
Bravo, Arthus. The fact that you are able to reflect on your actions and respond so eloquently shows that you are not as immature as you (or others) think you are.
I often blog about what Mark Prensky has termed “mutual disrespect” where adults look down their noses at kids and what they do, and then kids dismiss adults as fossils who are behind the times. Your experiences are not only helping you to learn how to thrive in a digital society, but you’re also helping adults learn as well.
Totally agree that we can ALL be learners and learn from each other, and I think this post and Draper’s post are leading us to just that. Thank you!
Wow, that’s a very well written blog post, Arthus. And for once in my life I’m not being sarcastic.
So long as you can realise and build on your mistakes you’ll go far. Remember - and I speak from experience here - that a little humility can go a long way. But I think you’re learning that a lot quicker than perhaps I did (or am continuing to…)
Nice response, Arthus. Those tweets are buried in thousands of others, and they’re no worse than a million others done by many adults, so I wouldn’t sweat it.
It’s a shame someone chose to cherry-pick them for a higher-profile sensationalistic post that goes on to poison the Students 2.0 well, because that makes those few tweets more prominent than your thousands of more agreeable, mature, intelligent ones - but it’s all small beans, really. You’re okay, and you’ll go far.
Clay
Arthus (and all): I left the following as a comment on Darren’s blog; I’m going to leave it (just as I wrote it there) here as well. Sincerely, Christian
***
I’m reminded of the Robin Williams character — the teacher, John Keating — in “Dead Poets Society” while trying to make sense of this larger scenario and comment thread.
“Keating” was exceptional at inspiration. In other words, his greatness lay in opening the door of curiosity for his otherwise traditional or naive students, giving them the support, confidence & nudge to step forward into potentially ‘risky’ decisions. I say ‘risky’ because the decisions required challenging a previous status quo to achieve a new outcome, one that often had social/life implications riding in the balance. They were ‘risky’ based on the student’s previous life experiences or context as much as the soon-to-be future.
Key: This was done regardless of whether the student’s parents (etc) would be willing to support the aforementioned decision.
On the other hand, Keating was decidedly lousy at giving those very same students ‘cover’ when the proverbial dung hit the fan.
In other words, while giving them the spark to tear out the textbook’s pages, start an underground literature society, ignore a parent’s steadfast rules, etc., he failed to take co-responsibility for what would happen ‘the next day’ when the truth become public. Just as important, he failed to provide his students with the emotional/strategic wherewithal to handle the real world pressure that would follow the execution of such risky decisions, whether they were inherently in the right or wrong for doing so in the first place.
Slight tangent (with key punchline) coming:
I doubt many would argue that Keating was a bit of an underground revolutionary who conveniently used the ‘guise of a classroom teacher to validate his own philosophical journey, perhaps even acting out (vicariously through his students) his own latent needs to rebel in a way that he was not able to do when he was their age in a similar setting.
To that end, his character becomes morally suspect as a model for teachers everywhere, no matter how inspired his individual classroom/teaching lessons may have been (or how Hollywood set him up to be in the closing minutes).
This comes to mind because the collective WE (as formal/paid educators) run the risk of being “Keatings” far more than we may choose to recognize or admit.
I, for one, can’t help but hold my hand up in recognition that I’ve been culpable in the past. Where/how? Well, any time I’ve chosen to write about, support, challenge, publicize, highlight, showcase at conferences, blog-link to, collaborate with, and/or criticize younger students (very much like Arthus or very different than Arthus) in the public forum of the edu-blogosphere (and beyond) — students who are not technically/legally adults (i.e. 18 years of age) — I’ve run the risk of being a “Keating” by subconsciously validating my own philosophical journey…and potentially at my students’ (or ‘kid’ bloggers’) expense.
Yes, me included. Intentions notwithstanding. I’ll let others determine if the mirrored reflection(s) feel familiar to them as well.
Back to the original ’situation:
Every response to the aforementioned situation (as hinted at by Darren after it was edited, and further written about by Arthus on his own blog) is exceedingly human in nature. ‘Reactions’ and ‘territory’ of privilege or identity/age took over where intellectual content once was the center of things.
In my opinion, the now-exaggerated issues of age and responsibility — heck, for that matter, the value of the original situation that sparked it all — have far less long-term currency than the underlying issues of:
a) Are WE as professional educators beginning to sincerely evaluate our unspoken intentions when we showcase individual pre-18 y.o. students in the blogosphere (etc) — regardless of intention or project value — as well as what unintentional outcomes are waiting for us as this pattern continues?
b) Are we so convinced that our instincts about making the educational world for our students transparent/collaborative based on 1) legitimate and thought-out professional truths for the welfare of the students’ academic success or 2) some sort of latent need to prove a philosophical element in our own hearts to the larger world?
c) How are WE as professional educators facing the often conflictive desires 1) to give students in our buildings/classrooms a second chance when it comes to behaviors or reactions we would not necessarily accept from our own adult peers on campus or in the community vs. 2) calling out these same students out (who we frame as supposed ‘peers’ in the decidedly less F2F, less personal realm of the virtual network/world) for public and link-based criticism at the first (or second) sign of poor behavior?
These are the most vital questions that linger — for me, at least — after having read through everything written about and commented on (at this time) re: this specific “conduct of communication/reaction” situation.
i doubt that anyone involved will be the last to ‘behave’ in a similar manner as the edu-blogosphere continues to mature, regardless of age or topic. Fortunately, decent damage-control and admission have occurred in the last day or so. Arthus has done decent work accepting his own responsibility in his follow-up post. Likewise, Darren has done decent work accepting his own responsibility by editing his original post and through this evolving comment thread. This is, I can’t help but think, simply a human situation with lots of ‘wishing’ that the clock could be turned back a bit on both sides.
My only concern now is that the moral of the story may remain focused on the individual personalities and specific expressions that were at the center of the original “communication” and “backlash”…
…rather than being focused on the larger issue I wrote about above via the Keating example.
After all, the last time I checked, if something goes wrong in my classroom — or anywhere I am directly involved as the ‘lead’ teacher/adult — where my students make poor choices, I am the 1st to be held accountable. Period. End of story. This is true when it comes to displaying evidence of maturity/experience, as well as restraint. And it is further true in terms of being able to see the larger implications when the dust settles and the majority of us have to return to our careers/classrooms to ‘lead’ those that show up to ‘learn’.
For what it’s worth, I’m putting myself on “Keating watch” in my very own mirror, good intentions or not. I’m hoping that the collective WE — as trained, professional, paid educators — do the same over time as frequently as we are capable of doing so.
@Laura: Thank you for your kind words. I am glad I received the opportunity to learn from this, with the support of the community.
That is a great quote… the most important part is that this never stops: there is always more character to be acquired, though some could certainly use a little more than others.
I agree that we don’t need to respect everyone, but I do think being respectful is important.
@Dan: Whether I was in the wrong or not, I do think I over-reacted in a rather immature way.
My thought is that if respect is given out freely, it loses its value. Respect is valuable only so long as it must be earned.
Sorry about the font size, I’m currently redesigning and should have the new theme up soon.
@Anthony: Keeping in mind our previous chats about this, I do not think one need abandon your identity to grow. After all, as people in the world (which, in the end, is more important), we cannot simply cast of an identity when it is worn out. Instead, we must slowly develop it and evolve. People do not change with revolution, they change with evolution.
@Steven: Thanks for stopping by.
@Carly: Thank you, though I always have more wisdom to acquire.
@Michelle: Thanks.
I think mutual disrespect is an unfortunate but all too common issue. No side wants to be the first to “let down its guard” so the stalemate lasts. One would hope that adults could be more mature and be the first, but sometimes I doubt that. If you give respect, you get respect: simple as that.
@Doug: I thought I would never say this, but thank you.
What both amuses me and concerns me is that you say this, then go write something like this, which basically blasts me as an unworthy member of the blogosphere.
@Clay: I often feel that students are held to far too high of stakes, especially with the handful of students on the web.
Think about it like this: there are hundreds of adult edubloggers, but less than two dozen good student ones. Therefore, every word we write and every thing we say is watched and blown out of proportion. Still, it always is a good lesson: and a good preparation for public life.
@Christian: Take this with a grain of salt, as I have tremendous respect for you and the work you do.
I think you miss the crucial point: Keating was entrusted with the teaching, and therefore the well-being, of his students. He was both their teacher and their mentor.
To me, you are neither. On the best of days, we are co-learners engaged in exploring this digital realm together and what it means for the future of education. At some times, you play the role of advertiser, supporter, inspiration, or even opposition. But you are never my teacher, and I am never your student.
Don’t get me wrong: I think we always have much to learn from each other. Your years of experience offer a unique perspective, as well as unforeseen knowledge that is certainly valuable. I imagine I must be offering something valuable in return, to have earned the respect of at least a couple of people. We may alternately learn from each other, but I am never your student and you are never my teacher.
To me, I think the contract between a teacher and student is a sacred one. (By association, the parents as well) In exchange for the teacher’s time and expertise, the student offers himself to be open to learning from that pool of knowledge, and trusts the teacher. Coming with this, the student (and his parents), expect that the teacher will always have the best interests of the student at heart. Where the teacher loses sight of that, even if he thinks he is doing the think, for whatever reason, that contract has been breached and the teacher is at fault. Keating broke this pact, and dire consequences ensued.
There is a reason I rarely blog about my teachers, even when I could have good things to say. In the pact between student and teacher, there should be no room for judgement: whether it be positive or negative. If my teachers held me up as a shining example, whether online or offline, I would consider that just as bad as if they critiqued me for failure.
Once again, we are in no such contract: both parties are voluntarily sharing knowledge, and can walk away at any time. In short, the emotional bond is very weak, though the intellectual bond may be strong. Intellect doesn’t drive us to do good (or bad) things, emotion does.
What are your intentions? For the most part, I think they are very clearly spoken: there’s not much nuance to it. Regardless, I am not an unwilling idol who has been somehow thrust into a role I was not prepared for. No, rather than being held up I pulled myself up.
I refer to the previous statement about the student/teacher contract. The students in your own building are your students, so you should always be thinking of what will be best for them. Most often, this learning process is best accomplished through a quiet talk. How you manage the situation is inherently dependent upon that unspoken agreement: you always want what is best for the student.
In the edublogosphere, that agreement does not exist (and I don’t think it should). Here, I do not expect you to have my best interests at heart. Instead, I expect you to have the best interests of the community in mind. Sometimes, it will be better for the community to highlight the mistakes of an individual, so the community at large may participate in a discussion and learn from that individual’s mistakes. In the edublogosphere, it is not a contract between student & teacher, it is a contract between blogger & community.
Frankly, I do not think editing out the photos improved the situation. Instead, it leaves a comment thread (and follow-up posts) filled with some rather harsh resentment and responses. (This doesn’t apply to all involved). With the context removed, the situation seems far worse than it really was. My rule for the web: once it’s up, it’s got to stay up.
I would hold you accountable for anything that went wrong where you are the ‘lead’ teacher or adult. But you are not in the edublogosphere. At best, you are just one of many, many ‘lead’ teachers. Truthfully, you are just learning with the rest of us. The very idea that you (or anyone) can be personally held responsible for what happens in the community at large is ridiculous, at best.
I was disrespectful, simple as that. Nobody besides myself is to blame. I think this has been extrapolated to a far greater degree than the original exchange was entitled to.
Arthus,
I think your apology was more mature and graceful than some of the online chatter I’ve seen about this “incident.”
To some extent, I agree with Anthony’s riff on respect. That being said, I don’t recommend that you try to totally change your style to fit more socially acceptable norms. Be true to yourself - and if that self is a bit caustic or brash, let people deal with it.
One size does not fit all in clothing or personality. We need a world with Mother Teresa and George Carlin and, yes, Imus. Otherwise we might just as well step back and let the Stepford Wives take over.
@diane: I couldn’t agree more. What makes humanity so great is the sheer variety of it.
Hardly on the “grain of salt” scale, your comment deserves being taken quite sincerely/seriously. Much to learn from. Likewise, much to reflect upon. While any of our efforts as writers to add clarity to a multi-faceted and inherently complicated set of concepts runs the risk of adding confusion, let me share the following in terms of my original intentions, your response, and where I think this lies on a larger level.
1. You owe nobody the status of ‘teacher’ in terms of blogging conversations. Whether I or others possess a ‘teacher’-like voice when we blog — based on our professional and life experiences — certainly does not force your hand to accept it as such with regards to your personal stake in things. Only your immediate family and those educators formally working at whatever school you currently attend deserve such a title in relation to you.
2. While my comment (above) is certainly fair game for you (or anyone) to dissect, it wasn’t really directed to you (save for being respectful by acknowledging this as your blog in my opening salutation). My comment was directed to the other adults who are directly involved in this, or may be involved in other similar dialog with teachers/students in and around the blogosphere. That is why I was careful to emphasize the formal/paid side of “educators”, rather than the conceptual “we’re all teachers” over the course of our lifetime element. If anything, my comment was (and continues to be) less about the specific scenario you were recently part of. Instead, it was meant to look at a larger pattern of interactions between well-intentioned paid/professional “educators” and pre-18 y.o. “students” within the blogosphere. I do take your comments sincerely, but I also know that it my comment was not directed at you.
3. Intellect aside, our ability to engage in serious/sincere conversations inside our classrooms and inside the blogosphere demands that we accept the roles of a) legal and b) moral implications. With regards to a “student” that is under the age of 18, the courts and society both demand that adults must play by different roles than children (using the legal sense of the word, not a pejorative sense of it). Arthus — intelligence, computer/coding/digital knowledge and blogging ‘personality’ aside — you desire for ‘peer’ status with legally adult bloggers (etc) holds ground in terms of common decency, respect, and our collective interest in ‘learning’. On the other hand, once you get into moral and legal realms, it begins to fade in terms of legitimacy (not because you or someone else lacks ability, but because society and the courts deem it as such). Because of that, any adult who acts in a formal or informal way in the blogosphere must still behave in a way that a child is not required to. Consider your ability to make mistakes when it comes to blogger discourse/debate to be more protected than that of an adult who is working beside you or in opposition to you.
4. With that in mind, the focus — as I stated earlier — is not about you (whether “14″, a blogger who is a “kid” or “student”, or whatever). No. It is, however, very much about the adults who are engaging you and using you as an example. Thus, my challenge to the adults (and myself) is to begin seriously thinking about the implications of our behaviors/choices when it comes to collaborating with and speaking children who are playing a role in the larger blogosphere (or our classrooms or educational projects). Again, this is NOT about you as an individual. The courts and society — frankly — couldn’t care less about that, to be honest. They do, however, care very much about our behavior…hence, the focus on my earlier comment.
5. I have had the growing suspicion for sometime now that many of the adult edu-bloggers that I know and read — both those I agree with and disagree with — are failing to have honest conversations about the roles our own philosophical belief systems and professional/edu-political stances are having on the lives and reputations of the very children we blog with and about. Again, this is NOT about you, Arthus. It is about the adults because we are not legally or morally ‘peers’ of the children we blog with or about…and we can never be until they are of legal age and the playing fields are level in the eyes of larger social systems than our own blogging networks.
6. The Keating example was used for obvious reasons, although I’d like to echo something you said and also take it one step further. You said: “I think you miss the crucial point: Keating was entrusted with the teaching, and therefore the well-being, of his students. He was both their teacher and their mentor.” Agreed. And from your POV (as you’ve clearly articulated above and many times before), we are not your “teachers” on any level. Fine, no worries. On the other hand, as long as we are legal adults and you are a legal child, we are held to a different standard in the eyes of the courts and society. You can reject our conscious/subconscious “teacher” voice, but we cannot ignore our responsibility on legal/moral grounds when it comes to how we engage and discuss/exemplify children in our ongoing edu-blogging efforts. My Keating example was not to suggest that you must accept any of us (me included) as your “teacher”, thus your response above was logical and something I can easily agree with. The example was offered in order to force me and networking colleagues to begin looking deeply into the mirror in terms of how our assumptions/behaviors with regards to highlighting children who blog (etc) to serve our own professional, political, and philosophical goals. Again, because I do not believe you are really the point of that larger conversation, I was not implicating you in it. Instead, I was looking for a larger pattern that extends well beyond the specifics of what you were directly involved with over the past few days.
7. Conceptually, I agree with this in terms of the philosophical issues of conversation/dialog: “Truthfully, you are just learning with the rest of us. The very idea that you (or anyone) can be personally held responsible for what happens in the community at large is ridiculous, at best.” You’re right. That being said, the courts and society as a whole couldn’t care less about the web 2.0 rhetoric of “learning with the rest of us.” once you hit the age of 18, you’ll be right. Until then, we are held to a different standard than you are and no amount of semantic gamesmanship will change that.
8. Finally, the issue of your ‘age’ is real, whether you/we like it or not. Objectively, you are given the freedom to proclaim the “I’m only 14 (or 15, or 16…)” position while simultaneously embracing the “we’re all just learners and peers” status. [note, I’m not saying these are your direct words nor how you consciously think, but they are what the rest of us must juggle when we engage you and talk about you, for better or worse] The rest of us are not afforded the same age/shape-shifting flexibility with regards to our status or responsibilities. Because of that, I think we (the adults) are culpable for creating an overly impressed/focused network of edu-bloggers and conference goers who hold you up uniquely on a rarified pedestal due to your age (before even your legitimate voice/skill). Like it or not, 2 things seem true: a) many edu-bloggers who passionately point you out as a terrific/healthy example of what IS possible when it comes to digital:native (or choose your phrase from their POV) are hungry to find concrete examples of School 2.0’s evolution. Until there exists a wide swath of children/pre-18y.o.’s like you who can also be used as concrete examples that the edu-blogosphere points to, you will continue to receive an unfair percentage of the focus in a way that makes ‘age’ an impossible thing to ignore. Most days this works to your advantage; other days, however, it is irresponsible (on their part) and not to your long-term credit.
I do not pretend that this is perfect, Arthus. But I do offer it to clarify my original intent as not being about you and also to remind all of us that ‘age’ is an unavoidable issue in this on-going journey until you are 18 (and embrace the same range of legal/social responsibilities that the rest of us are forced to).
This is not about intellect; it’s about perception and something larger than you as a single ’student’ example. Likewise, it is not about those of us on both sides of the 18y.o. line arguing that we are truly ‘peers’ in a legal/societal sense. We aren’t until all members are at least 18 and assume the same level of legitimate responsibility.
For what its worth, I agree with your final statement. It was about behavior, period. And it was blown up beyond what it was originally worth. Furthermore, you have done solid work articulating your own role/responsibility, and to that I applaud you. All that being said, I will return again to my statement that this — for me — is not about you, but about the larger issues the rest of us as adult educators must begin to consider when it comes to highlighting children as examples in our efforts to validate School 2.0 (or whatever one chooses to use as a framing device).
@Christian: While I understand your statements weren’t specifically targeting me, you did post it in the context of my blog which always leads for me to jump into the conversation.
My most recent post is partially a response to this, but I have a few additional thoughts specific to you:
The crux of the matter is that none of this should drift into legal or moral rounds, so long as the community holds all members (including students) to high moral standards. The law and society have awfully low standards, so meeting them isn’t exactly difficult.
Just because the courts do not hold me to the same standards as you does not mean I don’t hold myself to those same standards. As a member of the community, I hold myself to the same high standards as the rest of you.
I think you vastly overestimate how much society or the law cares about what is going on in the web. Yes, they care very much when ethical boundaries are cross or when they are actually your students.
I continue to misunderstand your problem with adults critiquing me or holding me up as an example. Why do you have a problem with this? Frankly, I have asked for it. If your only defense is that “society” doesn’t care, that is very weak. Do you honestly think “society” is going to come in here guns a blazing? No.
What I fear is that you are unable to transcend the expectations of society. Intellectually, you treat me as an equal. Yet, deep down you still think of me as inferior.
You seem to think there is some ethical problem with using a ‘poster boy.’ I have asked for this and continue to be willing to serve as an example. It would be one thing to do so if I did not request it, but it is not.
As I continue to say, that really doesn’t matter. It’s not about the law, since the law isn’t going to get involved since everyone here is a gentleman. Unless we were in a courtroom, I can’t understand how you can justify students as being inferior. Honestly, I think it is weakness on your part of being unable to reach beyond what the law requires. Society and the law don’t care about students being held up as examples online… so don’t pretend that’s a valid reason to keep students down.
I am not forced to adopt the same social requirements as adults until I am 18. That doesn’t mean I can’t. Maybe all members of the edublogosphere should agree to a code of conduct? Sure, it’s not legally enforceable: but nothing which has happened in the edublogosphere has even gotten anywhere near violating the legal requirements of adults or student.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
With much to consider and nod affirmatively about, Arthus, I also must admit that the following 3 sentences of yours are a bit of a conversation-ender for me:
As I said in a Twitter DM reply to you tonight when you alerted me to this response of yours, I was surprised by your assumption.
I also hinted (within the limits of 140 characters of course) that it might be healthier at first to assume the heart, rather than the sword, when someone is trying to explore a larger set of ideas where you are obviously not a/the ‘target’ of criticism.
If one is wrong, one still has plenty of time to line up the artillery; if one is right, however, one is in a position to gain immeasurably from investing early in what is most genuine in what the other person is exploring. Sadly, the reverse is rarely true in life or in blogs.
My gut says that you may swat that idea away as yet another uninvited teacher voice trying to tell you how the world works, possibly looking down on you in the process. No one can fault you for reacting that way; still, you’d be wrong about the assumption in this case (for what it is worth).
That is why, in spite of the 3 sentences I highlighted above being a conversation-ender for me, I will still walk away from our 2+ year span of conversation with a number of ideas you’ve been exploring/challenging that will positively push forward my own thinking from this point forward. Beyond that, I’m going to refrain from adding my response/reaction to your latest post comment thread (where some of my previous points are dissected in an effort to explore the ‘ageism’ frame further). I’m quite happy to be the silent straw man in this morality tale because I think what you are trying to solve is central to who you are both as a human and life-long student…thus already transcends anything I could offer in the future.
I wish you all the best with your continued work/writing here on the web, as well as with everything that matters most in F2F life back in Vermont (which probably matters far more than these loosely woven digital ties at the end of the proverbial day).
@Christian: That decision greatly saddens me, both because of my tremendous personal respect for you and my desire to explore the ideas you have, which always have been worth exploration.
For the record, I did not mean the above comments personally. Just as you expressed about your original comment, I meant this within the larger scope of the conversation. By me, I meant students in general. By you, I meant teachers in general.
I would never for a moment think you personally lack respect for me or my ideas–you have proven yourself to be far too intelligent and respectful for that.
It is far easier to commend later than to respond early.
Having read through these various comments and your ensuing posts, I drop by to offer a few thoughts of my own. Truth be told, I don’t follow you and don’t get involved in the conversations - for my own reasons. Although you are an intelligent young man and have demonstrated that you are indeed maturing and growing, you are not an adult which, whether we like it or not, creates a bit of uneasiness for me, especially as a school administrator because of some of the legal issues involved. You may not think that the courts or society really cares, but my experience is that they do care and when adults and youth come together, the onus is on the adult in the situation to make the appropriate decisions in the given situation.
Although you have much to offer, and this has been referenced a number of times in the different comments that I have read, intelligence and wisdom do equate to the same thing. Now, you might find that to be “ageism” in some way but there is some truth to it. Your comment to Doug about “getting out of your digital world” had me laughing since, really, I’ve been messing in this digital world before you were born using “internet” before it was known as internet. We both belong here. You may have the intelligence but some of us have the history which helps to guide what we do and gives us a reference for what we are doing now.
As an administrator and teacher, I have both worked with and been privy to know some exceptionally intelligent students. I have taken time to listen to them and work with them on many different projects and continue to value their input and what they have to say. However, given my position and the wide variety of information to which I have access and my past knowledge allows me to see issues from perspectives that students cannot see. I have earned the scorn of various students because, although I listened to them, I had to make decisions that were not what they wanted and I was in no position to fully explain my decisions. Some felt this was disrespectful and that I was disrespecting them. So when you say that people need to earn respect, I cringe since many of the positions of society rely on societal respect regardless of the person. I respect all police, doctors, nurses, plumbers, etc because of the position they hold. Now, I may not really respect the person holding the position but their position requires that I demonstrate respect when they are in it.
Unfortunately, as I have reread this, I believe that you and I are not going to agree. I even thought of pulling it but feel that there is a need to voice this opinion. As I watch the level of respect for teachers erode over time because of the ever-growing demand by parents and students for them to “earn” that respect, I see an erosion overall respect. It seems that more and more, people equating respect with “getting my way” or “agreeing with me”. Just as I respect many different people in different positions, I may not agree with them but I demonstrate respect. And, given some of the positions that they hold, any demonstration of disrespect will result in consequences that I surely will not like.
You’ll probably find that this is too “lecturish” for you, which is okay. Besides being a teacher and principal, I am a father to seven children, aged 3 to 16. My oldest 3 often find I am too lecturish! As a parent, that is my role, too guide and, when necessary, provide direction in some way. As an educator, that is part of what we do. You may be gifted in areas that, truthfully, I am not just as my own children have gifts that I do not. But, together with them, you lack the experience in life which deserves respect.
Again, I will probably draw the wrath of your readers and from yourself. As a person who has worked very hard and accumulated a great deal of knowledge, I have learned that expressing your opinion might have that result. In fact, the more I knowledge I have, the less I know. However, one thing I am think I’ve come to understand - youth believe that adults do not know much until they become adults and then they wonder why the youth think they know nothing!
You have much to offer and, as you have stated, have volunteered to take part in this. For that, you should be commended. In time, I know, you will indeed look back on this part of the journey. How you view it is yet to be determined as there is still too much of the journey to go and none can foretell how it will go. My best to you.
kwhobbes